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	<title>Comments on: A New Vision for Learning Managment Systems (part 1)</title>
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	<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/</link>
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		<title>By: Matt Crosslin</title>
		<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Crosslin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edugeekjournal.com/?p=194#comment-320</guid>
		<description>Yeah - I can see that.  Science is all about creating the boxes :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah &#8211; I can see that.  Science is all about creating the boxes :)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edugeekjournal.com/?p=194#comment-317</guid>
		<description>The high powered webCT users, from science, did not &#039;get&#039; blogs or why anyone would want to use such a tool. It wasn&#039;t a big deal, just a sense of disconnect between the camps. I could not understand their passion for the sealed boxes within boxes of webCT and they did not understand mine for blogs.&lt;br /&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The high powered webCT users, from science, did not &#8216;get&#8217; blogs or why anyone would want to use such a tool. It wasn&#8217;t a big deal, just a sense of disconnect between the camps. I could not understand their passion for the sealed boxes within boxes of webCT and they did not understand mine for blogs.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Crosslin</title>
		<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Crosslin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edugeekjournal.com/?p=194#comment-314</guid>
		<description>The differences might be a little more micro than those general categories. I know English and Grammar teachers are huge proponents of adding blogging tools to LMS platforms, especially Moodle. I created a &#039;Course Blog&#039; module for Moodle a while back, and the most popular feature that many use on it are student-only blogs, to where each student has a private blog that only the student and instructor can see. That is the walled garden to the extreme - but it is very popular idea with English people. It may just come down to personality preferences, but many disciplines are known to attract people of like personalities (take physical education for example).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But I am curious - what were those differences over in 2005/6? That is something interesting to look in to.&lt;br /&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The differences might be a little more micro than those general categories. I know English and Grammar teachers are huge proponents of adding blogging tools to LMS platforms, especially Moodle. I created a &#8216;Course Blog&#8217; module for Moodle a while back, and the most popular feature that many use on it are student-only blogs, to where each student has a private blog that only the student and instructor can see. That is the walled garden to the extreme &#8211; but it is very popular idea with English people. It may just come down to personality preferences, but many disciplines are known to attract people of like personalities (take physical education for example).</p>
<p>But I am curious &#8211; what were those differences over in 2005/6? That is something interesting to look in to.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edugeekjournal.com/?p=194#comment-311</guid>
		<description>Matt, interesting point about how business asimilate tools into the walled garden as edupunks migrate... &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wonder if there&#039;s something else at work, and that is this: certain disciplines actually like walled gardens, or castles without gardens altogether. I mean, the avidness with which I have seen some people in the sciences and social sciences gravitate toward webct type things. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I attended a few teaching workshops in 2005 or 2006 where the divide between liberal arts and sciences seemed pretty stark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, interesting point about how business asimilate tools into the walled garden as edupunks migrate&#8230; </p>
<p>I wonder if there&#8217;s something else at work, and that is this: certain disciplines actually like walled gardens, or castles without gardens altogether. I mean, the avidness with which I have seen some people in the sciences and social sciences gravitate toward webct type things. </p>
<p>I attended a few teaching workshops in 2005 or 2006 where the divide between liberal arts and sciences seemed pretty stark.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Crosslin</title>
		<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Crosslin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 08:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edugeekjournal.com/?p=194#comment-306</guid>
		<description>There definitely needs to be a simplification of the LMS interface. And I really hope they figure that out and get it right. But the other hard reality we have to face is that all of these products are consumer driven. They are the way they are in large part to end user demand. Even something as dense as Blackboard still had someone sitting there saying &#039;our customers want this!&#039; (even though they got it wrong - they still thought that)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even when we realize this, I don&#039;t know if we will truly realize how that came about. When the powers that be saw the EduPunks leaving the LMS for blogs and wikis and other tools - what do you think they did? &#039;Hey - we need to add those tools to our product!&#039; The sad truth is - EduPunks are probably most responsible for creating the &#039;walled garden&#039; effect than anyone else. The more we leave the LMS behind, the more they are going to try and assimilate what we are leaving for... rather than trying to understand why we are leaving. That&#039;s just the way businesses work.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So the battle is really within the confines of the LMS - trying to win other professors and EdTech people to our cause to get what you said here - an LMS that is native to professors, that allows them to teach in a way that their learners need to learn. Once the demand is there... once there is enough buzz being generated to getheir attentoin... then we will probably see the changes we need.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;(it seems to me that I remember there being movies or TV shows about people that were at war with something and then found out that they were actually the creators of the faction they were at war with. Kind of like Terminator, but they didn&#039;t know where the enemy cme from at first. Drawing a blank on what it is, thoug...)&lt;br /&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There definitely needs to be a simplification of the LMS interface. And I really hope they figure that out and get it right. But the other hard reality we have to face is that all of these products are consumer driven. They are the way they are in large part to end user demand. Even something as dense as Blackboard still had someone sitting there saying &#8216;our customers want this!&#8217; (even though they got it wrong &#8211; they still thought that)</p>
<p>Even when we realize this, I don&#8217;t know if we will truly realize how that came about. When the powers that be saw the EduPunks leaving the LMS for blogs and wikis and other tools &#8211; what do you think they did? &#8216;Hey &#8211; we need to add those tools to our product!&#8217; The sad truth is &#8211; EduPunks are probably most responsible for creating the &#8216;walled garden&#8217; effect than anyone else. The more we leave the LMS behind, the more they are going to try and assimilate what we are leaving for&#8230; rather than trying to understand why we are leaving. That&#8217;s just the way businesses work.</p>
<p>So the battle is really within the confines of the LMS &#8211; trying to win other professors and EdTech people to our cause to get what you said here &#8211; an LMS that is native to professors, that allows them to teach in a way that their learners need to learn. Once the demand is there&#8230; once there is enough buzz being generated to getheir attentoin&#8230; then we will probably see the changes we need.</p>
<p>(it seems to me that I remember there being movies or TV shows about people that were at war with something and then found out that they were actually the creators of the faction they were at war with. Kind of like Terminator, but they didn&#8217;t know where the enemy cme from at first. Drawing a blank on what it is, thoug&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Conway</title>
		<link>http://www.edugeekjournal.com/2008/08/26/a-new-vision-for-learning-managment-systems-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Conway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.edugeekjournal.com/?p=194#comment-304</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m having a rough night... first I find out that we are moving into web 3.0 when I thought we had more or less just arrived in web 2.0. Now I find this term that seems to refer to me: &quot;Edupunk.&quot; I need to process this a little bit. Get used to the fact that at least in one part of my life, I can still be a punk. I thought I had &#039;arrived&#039; irrevocably and the fossilization process begun... but there may be a part of my life in which I can still be a punk, which gives me hope. ;-)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Seriously, I like what you&#039;re getting at Matt. I&#039;m thinking of teaching my culture class next semester off of a blog instead of moodle and rethink a lot of its original content (form and content are difficult to separate in online courses as in literature, I suppose). But I don&#039;t see myself going CRAZY with a million web 2.0 tools at once. If anything, I see myself scaling back a bit in terms of my strategies and tools and being a bit more minimalist as an instructor. In that regard, though I may not technically be using a LMS in the narrow sense of the word, I think I will be trying to chart some kind of middle course in which the blog structure functions as a LMS.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have not theorized these choices or thought them through as carefully as you present your ideas here. But for a LMS to truly do what you say it should do, and serve instructors such as myself, it needs to be as easy to use, as natural to use, as blogs have become to younger teachers. (In my department over half of the professors --people who are not very tech minded-- use blogs in all of their classes.) When LMS becomes that native to professors, then it will have arrived as a new standard for all courses, all live, hybrid and distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having a rough night&#8230; first I find out that we are moving into web 3.0 when I thought we had more or less just arrived in web 2.0. Now I find this term that seems to refer to me: &#8220;Edupunk.&#8221; I need to process this a little bit. Get used to the fact that at least in one part of my life, I can still be a punk. I thought I had &#8216;arrived&#8217; irrevocably and the fossilization process begun&#8230; but there may be a part of my life in which I can still be a punk, which gives me hope. ;-)</p>
<p>Seriously, I like what you&#8217;re getting at Matt. I&#8217;m thinking of teaching my culture class next semester off of a blog instead of moodle and rethink a lot of its original content (form and content are difficult to separate in online courses as in literature, I suppose). But I don&#8217;t see myself going CRAZY with a million web 2.0 tools at once. If anything, I see myself scaling back a bit in terms of my strategies and tools and being a bit more minimalist as an instructor. In that regard, though I may not technically be using a LMS in the narrow sense of the word, I think I will be trying to chart some kind of middle course in which the blog structure functions as a LMS.</p>
<p>I have not theorized these choices or thought them through as carefully as you present your ideas here. But for a LMS to truly do what you say it should do, and serve instructors such as myself, it needs to be as easy to use, as natural to use, as blogs have become to younger teachers. (In my department over half of the professors &#8211;people who are not very tech minded&#8211; use blogs in all of their classes.) When LMS becomes that native to professors, then it will have arrived as a new standard for all courses, all live, hybrid and distance.</p>
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